tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post7218825769732733772..comments2024-02-15T03:58:17.733-05:00Comments on Eschatological Psychosis: Hermeneutics's just another word for nothing left to lose (tarot ramblings)Tristyn Bloomhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05377685250633624137noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-10708367404343932132013-03-02T01:39:14.766-05:002013-03-02T01:39:14.766-05:00Ok. Still the Prague deck. Was thrown off scent by...Ok. Still the Prague deck. Was thrown off scent by the difference in style.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-89395443660280790782013-03-02T01:29:21.683-05:002013-03-02T01:29:21.683-05:00The Hanged Man image is extraordinary. Which deck ...The Hanged Man image is extraordinary. Which deck does that come from?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-57901374967147158992012-12-06T21:25:37.504-05:002012-12-06T21:25:37.504-05:00Just wish to say your article is as astounding.
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t...You made some decent points there. I checked on <br />the web to learn more about the issue and found most individuals will go along with your views on this web site.<br /><i>Feel free to surf my web page</i> ; <b><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMKpWTPXFR4" rel="nofollow">Work at home</a></b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-40204414834236142402011-03-15T01:27:29.794-04:002011-03-15T01:27:29.794-04:00"Du fuerchterliches Weib! Was bannt mich noch..."Du fuerchterliches Weib! Was bannt mich noch in deiner Naehe?" - LOHENGRIN, Act II<br /><br />Srsly -you're right, the Hierophant and Popess don't do much to reassure me that a Tarot is whatchermightcall part of the New Evangelization or anything like that. But your last sentence reframes the whole thing.David M. Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986833157160434927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-32058626559962340422011-03-14T19:14:18.813-04:002011-03-14T19:14:18.813-04:00I'll address some of your other points a bit l...I'll address some of your other points a bit later, but actually the tarot used to have much more explicitly Christian imagery (I don't think this is going to make you feel any better)-- Rider-Waite sort of de-Christianized it and that became the standard. <br /><br />For example, they changed what was traditionally "The Pope" to "The Hierophant", "The High Priestess" used to be "The Popess". The Prague deck actually comes with two different versions of the Death card-- a more "traditional" one with an armored skeleton on a horse: http://picasaweb.google.com/lal.enio/TarotOfPrague#5245816581444875186 and this alternate version: http://picasaweb.google.com/lal.enio/TarotOfPrague#5245816580779626610<br /><br />You can actually look at the entire deck here (an album I hadn't found when I wrote this original post): http://picasaweb.google.com/lal.enio/TarotOfPrague# More examples of Christian imagery can be seen in "The Lovers", "The Wheel of Fortune", "Judgment", "The World", and others. "5 of Cups" is the Golem.<br /><br />My book, which is back in NH, gets into the history and evolution of various symbols; might find some way to work that into a future post about something.<br /><br />Another element of the tarot I didn't touch on, but which I hope is obvious, is how much of a parlor game it is, and how much fun it can be working together with a querent to string together the disparate elements into a coherent whole, or something approaching it-- not that that would be any sort of excuse, but I don't want anyone to get the impression that I take this incredibly seriously.Tristyn Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05377685250633624137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-17058710306039187382011-03-14T18:41:56.801-04:002011-03-14T18:41:56.801-04:00Just read Leah's post and your response. Sign ...Just read Leah's post and your response. Sign me on to the assertion (without more) that Tarot decks can be beautiful things, and that the Prague deck that Tristyn talks about seems to be particularly so. But their beauty is of an ominous kind, at least to me. <br /><br />Someone who's not a crackpot must have researched the history of these images in a scholarly fashion. (Or maybe not?) If so, do you have any leads? <br /><br />I'd do a search myself, but I don't have time to wade through the nutter sites that would come up, and also, in all candor, I don't want them to leave traces on my computer, esp. here at Regent.David M. Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986833157160434927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-49356995927727091932011-03-14T18:34:28.435-04:002011-03-14T18:34:28.435-04:00Another comment, and with it, a source of unease:
...Another comment, and with it, a source of unease:<br /><br />"The cards have survived this long ('occult tarot' first appeared in the 18th century) precisely because they represent aspects of man and his relationships that transcend particular historical contexts."<br /><br />Transcending particular historical contexts -- the closeted Straussian comes out! Let's have a party!<br /><br />A preference for texts over symbols is very swordy of me, so I won't insist on it (and as an opera fan I don't think I could), but those 18th roots -- what's up with that? Of course, Leo Strauss lived in a particular time, but he drew from texts ranging from the pre-Socratics to his own day. Tarot symbols, on the contrary, have (forgive me) a sort of Hollywoody faux-historicalness that makes me feel disoriented, all the more b/c I get the sense it's supposed to.<br /><br />(In this regard, btw, I much prefer the Prague Two of Swords to the Rider-Waite -- but what's that castle or cathedral in the background, besides being kind of, you know, Prague-y? The RW doesn't have it. Is it part of the essential symbolism or not? If not, what's it doing lurking there so suggestively?)<br /><br />Back to the 18th cent. thing. This was a time when sources of wisdom separate from Christianity were being sought out in the West for precisely that quality. Leo Strauss was no Christian, but at least he denounced the anti-religious pretensions of the Enlightenment. The Tarot, as you've explained it, now sounds like a form of the Enlightement universalism critiqued by McIntyre (as well as Strauss), decked out in symbolism that may be powerful but whose origins are still under question (see my previous comment).<br /><br />OK, I guess that's all for now. Great post, though: it answered my initial question and helped me understand what you see yourself as doing.David M. Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986833157160434927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-49889665661390118722011-03-14T18:15:50.454-04:002011-03-14T18:15:50.454-04:00OK - brilliant! Some questions:
1. "We on th...OK - brilliant! Some questions:<br /><br />1. "We on the right so often bemoan the death of tradition-- here's one for you boys, neatly stacked and tied with a gold ribbon."<br /><br />Have you read Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum"? If not, let's pick up this thread whenever you do. Especially since you continue:<br /><br />"The tarot represents, no, embodies, accumulated knowledge of human nature, personal relationships, and political and entrepreneurial ambition-- all we need do is lay out the cards and look." <br /><br />Based on what I know as of this writing, I accept that. What's more, it's not my position that tradition has to be overtly Christian in order to be acceptable (e.g. wisdom about politics from the Greeks and Romans). <br /><br />But I'm still curious whether the wisdom accumulated in the Tarot was accumulated merely outside the Christian tradition (that much seems obvious, or else there'd be a specifically Christian Tarot tradition), or actually in contravention of it, either as a pre-Christian "irreconcilable" (think "demons" in Chesterton's dichotomy of "The War of the Gods and the Demons," in "The Everlasting Man") or an active pagan holdout (think Ortrud).<br /><br />In short, on a continuum that stretches from the Catholic confessional to the Brazilian "condomble" that Eco shows in FP, which end are we closer to here, as far as "tradition" is concerned? I'm not demanding an answer: just explaining why (even apart from classic and boring "bad tradition" hypos) "tradition" by itself is not the gold standard.David M. Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986833157160434927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-32931160442228680542011-03-14T17:46:21.993-04:002011-03-14T17:46:21.993-04:00It was such a pain to write this post without my d...It was such a pain to write this post without my deck or book with me! It is also somewhat frightening how much the cards have seeped into my brain (though I haven't referenced them on the floor in a VERY long time-- I've cited the Two of Swords in at least one speech...).<br /><br />There are thousands of decks out there, but I really, really like this one. Obviously owes a debt to Rider-Waite but really blows it out of the water in so many ways.<br /><br />The whole point I wanted to make when writing this is that thinking in images is good. I clearly got very side-tracked, ha.Tristyn Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05377685250633624137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3123974359510696264.post-473601258554130962011-03-14T17:43:02.696-04:002011-03-14T17:43:02.696-04:00Went to go look through the cards in your deck (to...Went to go look through the cards in your deck (to remind myself what the Page of Swords looked like) and I was reminded of how much I particularly admire the design for the Tower and the Nine of Swords.Leahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16496144988509668275noreply@blogger.com